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Nidd Valley Light Railway

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66-545: Nidd Valley Light Railway was a light railway in upper Nidderdale in the West Riding of Yorkshire , England. It was owned by Bradford Corporation Waterworks Department and the corporation also operated its public passenger services. Power & Traction Ltd of London obtained a Light Railway Order for the 6.5-mile (10.5 km) railway from Pateley Bridge to Lofthouse in 1900, but these powers were taken over by Bradford Corporation. A contract to build Angram Reservoir

132-488: A Municipal Authority, in this case Bradford, to build a railway which was located outside its area of jurisdiction, and was not connected to a railway which started within its area. However, on 30 December 1903, a transfer order was granted, with powers to borrow up to £30,000 to fund the project. In May 1904, the Board of Trade agreed to a change to standard gauge, and borrowing powers were increased to £66,000 in 1908, because of

198-470: A close in 1916. It had been allowed to fill in late 1915, and overflowed in January 1916. The school at Angram village was closed by June 1916, and the population was depleted. A certificate of completion was awarded to John Best & Sons on 4 August 1917. For a contract worth £365,493, and lasting fourteen years, it had overrun by just £7,267, which included the cost of some large granite rocks, located near

264-556: A commission, consisting of three commissioners, to be styled the Light Railway Commissioners, and to be appointed by the President of the Board of Trade. The Light Railways Act 1896 did not specify any exceptions or limitations that should apply to light railways; it did not even attempt to define a 'light railway'. However, it gave powers to a panel of three Light Railway Commissioners to include 'provisions for

330-606: A compensation reservoir, to maintain flows in the Nidd further down the valley. Haden Carr reservoir was completed in 1899, together with a 32-mile (51 km) pipeline (the Nidd Aqueduct ) to deliver the water to Chellow Heights service reservoir on the outskirts of Bradford. The route included over 6 miles (9.7 km) of tunnels. Gouthwaite reservoir was built concurrently by a different contractor, between 1893 and 1901. The Corporation next turned their attention to Angram, but

396-584: A gradient of 1 in 15 (6.7%). Another incline, of 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge, ascended the far side of the valley, giving access to Nidd sluice and lodge. A third incline brought rock down to the main line from a quarry, some 2 miles (3.2 km) below the terminus. At Pateley Bridge , the Nidd Valley Light Railway station was to the north west of the North Eastern Railway's Pateley Bridge railway station , close to

462-484: A hearing at Harrogate on 9 October 1900, the Light Railway Commissioners awarded an order to Power & Traction for a 2 ft 6 in ( 762 mm ) gauge railway. Bradford Corporation initially agreed to invest £2,000, by buying shares in the light railway, but following meetings between them, the newly formed Nidd Valley Light Railway Company, Power & Traction, and Henry Jackson

528-478: A network of sidings were constructed, zig-zagging down to the Nidd, and back up the other side of the valley. A double track self-acting incline provided access to the Carle Fell Quarry, to the north of the reservoir, and as the quarry was worked, two further inclines were constructed. One was single track, with a winding engine at the top, and around 1930, an incline worked by locomotives was added. Above

594-479: A party of 150 members of Bradford City Council, with invited guests, arrived by train at Pateley Bridge, and were transported to Gouthwaite Dam in carriages. Here there was a ceremony in which the Lord Major cut the first sod for the Nidd Valley Light Railway. The party then proceeded to Sykes Bank, where a train was waiting, which consisted of 15 wagons fitted with makeshift seats, and two locomotives, one of which

660-525: A pension, pensions were paid to G Pearson, who had worked for the company as a locomotive driver for 30 years, and to J Brown, who had been a platelayer for 20 years. Pensions were also to be paid to another platelayer and the locomotive fireman on reaching the age of 65. At its peak, the Scar House reservoir project had employed about 780 men, and the population of Scar Village had been 1,135. By 1936, there were just eight houses occupied, and seven pupils at

726-466: A private railway. The Saturday train to Pateley Bridge for the residents of Scar Village continued until 1932. The construction of the main dam at Scar House finally severed the line to Angram in 1933. By 1936, with construction completed, the railway was lifted, and a sale was held at Pateley Bridge on 1 March 1937, where everything was sold as a single lot. The staff of the Nidd Valley Light Railway were laid off, and although their jobs did not qualify for

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792-428: A road from Lofthouse to Angram. Bradford had purchased enough land to allow the light railway to be built beside the road, and although Best was awarded a contact for the railway in 1903, it appears that Holme and King built a 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge contractor's railway beside part or all of the road. They had two locomotives on site, both 0-4-0 saddle tanks, one bought second hand some years earlier and moved to

858-593: A signal box at Pateley Bridge, with the other stations having ground frames and simple signalling. Operation of the line was controlled by the Tyer's Electric Train Tablet system, and six machines were ordered at a cost of £360. Both intermediate stations had goods sidings on the eastern side of the main track, while Lofthouse had a passing loop and sidings to the west. Best had a number of locomotives, both 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge and standard gauge, which operated over

924-495: A standard gauge railway to be constructed "at any future time." The North Eastern Railway , owners of the Nidd Valley Railway, argued that it should be standard gauge from the outset, since they were running excursions to Pateley Bridge twice a week, and these could continue over the Nidd Valley Light Railway. It would also remove the necessity of transshipping goods. The Board of Trade were reticent about allowing

990-591: A total operating loss of £36,435 between 1908 and 1924, and then made a modest profit until 1929. Fares were cut by one third in early 1929, in the face of competition from motor buses, and a decision was taken to close the line in April 1929. An approach to the London and North Eastern Railway to take over the railway was unsuccessful, and on 31 December 1929, the railway closed to public passenger and goods services. The sections below and above Lofthouse continued to be run as

1056-473: A tramway. The Light Railways Act 1896 was never a great success. By the 1920s the use of road transport had killed the majority of these little railways, although some survived thanks to clever management and tight financial control. The act was repealed in 1993 for England and Wales by the Transport and Works Act 1992 and no new light railway orders were allowed to be issued for Scotland since 2007. Until

1122-453: Is not a tramway but a separate class of railway. The act was triggered by the complexity of creating the low-cost railways that were needed at the time in rural areas, and by the successful use of tramway rules to create the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway in 1882, which was in fact a light railway in all but name. The Regulation of Railways Act 1868 ( 31 & 32 Vict. c. 119) had permitted

1188-470: The 'one engine in steam' principle). A number of municipal and company-owned street tramways were built or extended by the act, in preference to the Tramways Act 1870 ( 33 & 34 Vict. c. 78). The procedure of the 1896 act was simpler, permission easier to obtain (local authorities had the right to veto lines under the 1870 legislation), and there was a 75% savings on rates payable as compared to

1254-499: The Metropolitan Railway . The Angram Reservoir project was completed in 1916. The corporation had obtained powers to build another reservoir at Scar House in 1913, and in 1920 decided to proceed, using direct labour rather than a contractor. The railway was upgraded, with the purchase of new and second hand locomotives, a railmotor for the public services, and second hand carriages for the workmen's trains. Curves on

1320-589: The Light Railway Order, which specified a maximum axle loading of 6.5 tons. They weighed 46.6 tons in working order, with 36.7 tons carried by the two driving axles. The Corporation applied for an increase in the axle loading, specifying the weight as "over 42 tons". Milner , the newest of the two locomotives, dating from 1879, did not perform well, and was replaced by a Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0 side tank, also named Milner in May 1909. The original Milner

1386-607: The River Nidd, with the goods yard just to the north of the B6265 road. The passenger station was a little further north, and is now occupied by a road called "The Sidings". It headed north along the east bank of the river, and this section of it now forms part of the Nidderdale Way , a long-distance footpath. Wath station was just to the south of the minor road that crosses Wath Bridge, and had two sidings. The footpath leaves

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1452-421: The River Nidd. The two were connected by a single track which crossed a level crossing . There were a series of sidings immediately after the level crossing, with the station and more sidings beyond that. A carriage shed and a locomotive shed were located a little further along the valley of the Nidd. Best built two-storey stone buildings for the stations at Pateley Bridge, Wath , Ramsgill and Lofthouse. He built

1518-635: The Wikimedia System Administrators, please include the details below. Request from 172.68.168.226 via cp1108 cp1108, Varnish XID 202408059 Upstream caches: cp1108 int Error: 429, Too Many Requests at Thu, 28 Nov 2024 05:38:24 GMT Light Railways Act 1896 The Light Railways Act 1896 ( 59 & 60 Vict. c. 48) was an act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland . Before

1584-450: The act each new railway line built in the country required a specific act of Parliament to be obtained by the company that wished to construct it, which greatly added to the cost and time it took to construct new railways. The economic downturn of the 1880s had hit agriculture and rural communities in the United Kingdom especially hard and the government wished to facilitate the construction of railways in rural areas, especially to facilitate

1650-401: The construction of a 180-yard (160 m) tunnel near Goyden Pot , which was used by up trains only. The line at Angram was extended to a small quarry in 1921, along the trackbed of Best's 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge line beyond the dam. Stone was extracted for remedial work, caused by wind and wave erosion of the southern bank of the reservoir near the dam. Near the Scar House dam site,

1716-539: The construction of light railways subject to '...such conditions and regulations as the Board of Trade may from time to time impose or make'; for such railways it specified a maximum permitted axle weight and stated that '...the regulations respecting the speed of trains shall not authorize a speed exceeding at any time twenty-five miles an hour'. For the purpose of facilitating the construction and working of light railways in Great Britain, there shall be established

1782-490: The course of the railway before the station, and follows the bank of the river, crossing over the railway trackbed by Gouthwaite Dam. The trackbed was close to the shore of the reservoir, and the footpath rejoins it after a deviation to the north west. Ramsgill Station was at Bouthwaite , rather than Ramsgill , just to the south of Bouthwaite Bridge, where the Ramsgill to Bouthwaite road crosses Lul Beck. The footpath rejoins

1848-558: The dam for decoration. Bradford Corporation had already obtained an Act in 1913, allowing them to abandon their plans for a reservoir at High Woodale, and instead to build a much larger one at Scar House . It would submerge the site of Haden Carr reservoir, and the Act allowed them to start construction "when appropriate". The cost of the new works was estimated at £2,161,500, and although three tenders were received, they decided on 14 May 1920 to build it themselves, using direct labour. Scar village

1914-618: The discovery that Leeds Corporation had obtained rights to the waters of the River Burn , a tributary of the River Ure , above Masham . Alexander Binnie , who was the Waterworks Engineer for Bradford at the time, and Professor Alexander Henry Green , a geologist from Oxford , visited the area, and Green advised Binnie that the valley was suitable for the construction of large dams. The Bradford Corporation Water Act 1890

1980-594: The engine was replaced by one of Best's engines, and continued to Angram where luncheon was served in the village reading room. Invited guested included a number of men from the Midland Railway and the North Eastern Railway. The secretary of the Power & Traction Company was also invited, but it is not known whether he was there on the day. The two locomotives were much too heavy to comply with

2046-603: The entire line from Pateley Bridge to Angram during the construction phase. For the opening of the Nidd Valley Light Railway proper, the 6.5 miles (10.5 km) from Pateley Bridge to Lofthouse, Bradford Corporation ordered six open wagons and two brake vans from Hurst Nelson of Motherwell . Locomotives and carriages were obtained second-hand from the Metropolitan Railway in London. These consisted of ten 4-wheeled coaches and two 4-4-0 Beyer Peacock side tank locomotives . All had become surplus to requirements, as electrification of

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2112-485: The extra costs of building the wider formation. The document was signed by Winston Churchill , the President of the Board of Trade . In addition to the main reservoir contract, John Best was awarded a contract to build the light railway to Lofthouse for £23,000, and a tramway from Lofthouse to Angram for £5,385. Prior to Best starting on the main contract, Holme and King had been awarded a contract in April 1902 to build

2178-459: The incline from Carle Fell Quarry, which provided a home for the reservoir keeper, and a boardroom for official visits. A project to re-route the waters from Armathwaite Gill and Howstean Beck through a tunnel and into the reservoir began in May 1929. A 2 ft ( 610 mm ) gauge line was laid, on which two battery-electric locomotives and twelve wagons ran. The start of work on Scar House Reservoir led to an overhaul of existing stock. Seven of

2244-413: The later quarry face, a Simplex petrol locomotive worked on a 2 ft ( 610 mm ) track, removing overburden. Hydro-electric power for the works was generated using water from Angram reservoir, which was discharged into Haden Carr reservoir. A 4,775-foot (1,455 m) pipeline supplied the turbines. This was later supplemented by a steam generating station. Two locomotive sheds were built, one near

2310-476: The level of activity in the valley had attracted outside interest, and Power & Traction Ltd of London applied for a Light Railway Order to construct a line from the terminus of the Nidd Valley Railway at Pateley Bridge to Lofthouse . The board of Power & Traction included Thomas Greenwood of Greenwood and Batley , which made electric vehicles and equipment for electric tramways. Following

2376-494: The line above Lofthouse were eased, and a short tunnel was built. At its height, the corporation were running fourteen locomotives, three steam navvies and 19 or 20 steam cranes. The work was essentially completed by 1931, but filling of the reservoir did not begin until 1935 and the official opening was the following year. With the work complete, the railway was lifted, and a sale was held at Pateley Bridge. Scar Village, which at its peak had housed 1,135 people, of whom 780 worked on

2442-521: The line had been completed in 1905. The locomotives were fitted with condensing equipment , for working in the tunnels under London, but the price of £1,350 for the pair included removal of this, and the fitting of cabs. All twelve vehicles arrived at Pateley Bridge, with one engine in steam, and were driven to the exchange sidings by Mr McCallum, who worked for Best & Sons. The locomotives were named Holdsworth and Milner after two Aldermen who had served Bradford Waterworks since 1898. An inspection of

2508-510: The line was carried out by Colonel von Donop for the Board of Trade on 24 July 1907. Its condition was found to be suitable for passenger traffic, with just a few minor recommendations needing to be carried out. An official opening took place on 11 September, when a train consisting of three carriages and the Corporation saloon were hauled by Holdsworth from Pateley Bridge to Lofthouse, with stops at Wath and Gouthwaite reservoir. At Lofthouse

2574-408: The main line, with another named Bunty shunting the sidings there. The standard gauge rails were laid from Lofthouse outwards in both directions, and when the first standard gauge locomotive arrived, it was towed along the road to Sykes Bank by a Foden steam lorry, its flanged wheels making a mess of the road surface. The main line and sidings became mixed gauge for a while, although the third rail

2640-619: The nominated contractor, the Company decided not to proceed with the project, and Bradford withdrew their offer to buy shares. In 1903, Bradford invited tenders for the construction of Angram Reservoir, and the project was awarded to John Best in October–November, at a contract price of £365,492. Meanwhile, the corporation had reached provisional agreement with the Nidd Valley Light Railway Company to purchase

2706-780: The original Metropolitan Railway coaches were upholstered and repainted, while the remaining five were used for the workmen. A steam railmotor was obtained in 1921, which had previously been owned by the Great Western Railway . It was named Hill and was fitted with electric lights in 1923. It worked on the public section of the railway, and never travelled beyond Lofthouse. Numerous new and secondhand locomotives were purchased, most for use on construction work, but two, Blythe and Gadie , were fitted with vacuum brakes, and so worked goods trains from Pateley Bridge to Scar House, as well as passenger trains between Scar House and Lofthouse and sometimes Pateley Bridge. Passenger trains for

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2772-487: The party then made the zig-zag railway journey to cross the valley and inspect the steam generating plant, which was on the far side. They ascended the incline to Carle Fell Quarry, sitting in wagons fitted with transverse seats, and having inspected the new workings, descended again, a scene which was officially recorded by a photographer. The main engineering work was almost complete by the time of another official visit on 24 September 1931, but for whatever reason, filling of

2838-413: The powers awarded to them to build the light railway. There was some debate about the gauge of the railway. Bradford wanted to ask the Light Railway Commissioners for permission to increase it to 3 ft ( 914 mm ), probably influenced by Best, who knew that there were supplies of suitable contractors stock available for such a railway. They also wanted to ensure that they bought enough land to allow

2904-405: The project, was reduced to eight occupied houses by 1936, with seven pupils at the school. The railway workers were not entitled to a pension, but pensions were awarded to four men who had served for many years. The origins for a railway in the upper Nidd Valley can be traced back to 1887–88, when Bradford Corporation began to investigate the valley as a source for the public water supply, following

2970-486: The quarry is still clearly visible. Another road, open to the public on foot, follows the trackbed along the southern edge of Scar House Reservoir, to reach Angram dam. The course of the railway is clearly visible on the modern 1:25,000 Ordnance Survey map for almost the entire length of the railway. 54°10′50″N 1°56′22″W  /  54.18056°N 1.93944°W  / 54.18056; -1.93944 Light railway Too Many Requests If you report this error to

3036-443: The rear by another engine above Lofthouse because of the steep gradients. Traffic returns showed 106,216 journeys by workmen in 1921, and 41,051 by ordinary passengers. The figure for workmen was not declared after 1922, as the accommodation at Scar Village was available. The peak year for journeys was 1923, with 63,020, after which there was a gradual decline, with 24,906 journeys for the final nine months before closure. The line made

3102-432: The requirements of a normal railway: level crossings did not have to be protected by gates, but only by cattle grids , saving the cost of both the gates and a keeper to operate them. It did not exclude standard-gauge track , but narrow-gauge tracks were used for many railways built under its provisions. Many of the railways built under the auspices of the act were very basic, with little or no signalling (many ran under

3168-400: The reservoir did not start until 5 July 1935, when the main overflow valve was closed. The official opening was more than a year later, on 7 September 1936. Scar House, which gave its name to the reservoir, and which had been the home of Allan Best during the construction of Angram Reservoir, and of the resident engineer for this project, was demolished. A new Scar House was built, at the foot of

3234-512: The residents of Scar village ran on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, the mid-week ones connecting with Hill at Lofthouse, and the Saturday ones running through to Pateley Bridge. The 1927 printed timetable showed five trains a day between Pateley Bridge and Lofthouse, but also showed the trains onwards to Scar Village, with a note that these were for exclusive use of residents. Saturday trains were hauled by Blythe or Gadie , but were banked at

3300-413: The road and river turn sharply west. There is a picnic spot near the southern portal of the tunnel. At Scar Village there is another picnic spot and a car park. The railway followed the most northerly of the two tracks at this point. Another track down to the weirs follows the course of one of the zig-zag tracks across the valley. A footpath crosses the dam to the north side of the lake, where the incline to

3366-688: The safety of the public... as they think necessary for the proper construction and working of the railway' in any light railway order (LRO) granted under the act. These could limit vehicle axle weights and speeds: the maximum speed of 25 miles per hour (mph) often associated with the Light Railways Act 1896 is not specified in the act but was a product of the earlier Regulation of Railways Act 1868 ( 31 & 32 Vict. c. 119). However, limits were particularly needed when lightly laid track and relatively modest bridges were used in order to keep costs down. LROs could also exempt light railways from some of

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3432-531: The school, which closed on 31 January 1938. Most of the locomotives were saddle tanks , and there were four distinct groups. Holme & King Ltd owned two 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge locomotives, which were used during the building of the road from Lofthouse to Angram. John Best and Son, the main contractor for the Angram Reservoir project, owned five 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge and nine standard gauge locomotives, which were initially used on

3498-455: The shed at the top of the main self-acting incline, while Ian Hamilton and Stringer were based in a shed at a higher level. Three steam navvies were used to load stone into the railway wagons, and there were nineteen or twenty steam cranes, all of which were self-propelled and ran on the tracks either in the quarry or on top of the dam. An official visit by officers of the corporation on 5 June 1925 used motor transport to reach Scar House, but

3564-570: The site in spring 1902, after working on several other projects, and the second bought new for delivery to Pateley Bridge. By mid-1904, there was a 6.5-mile (10.5 km) line from Angram, which crossed the River Nidd on a 20-foot (6.1 m) bridge just before it reached Lofthouse. Best began extending the line towards Pateley Bridge, and by 13 July 1904, it had reached a level crossing at Sykes Bank, 0.5 miles (0.8 km) below Lofthouse, and work had commenced at several other sites. On that date,

3630-472: The trackbed briefly at Low Sikes, where there was a level crossing over the Ramsgill to Lofthouse road. Lofthouse station was to the south of Lofthouse, sandwiched between the road and the River Nidd. The railway crossed the river on the bridge which is now the road bridge, and turned north, along a route which is now a metalled road owned by Yorkshire Water , but open to the public. The bricked up tunnel can be seen about 2 miles (3.2 km) from Lofthouse, where

3696-520: The transport of goods. The 1896 act defined a class of railways which did not require specific legislation to construct – companies could simply plan a line under the auspices of the new act, and, having obtained a light railway order , build and operate it. By reducing the legal costs and allowing new railways to be built quickly the government hoped to encourage companies to build the new 'light railways' in areas of low population and industry that were previously of little interest to them. A light railway

3762-515: The village and another on the north side of the River Nidd, with a further two at Carle Fell Quarry. All had two tracks. Twelve four-wheeled carriages were bought from the Maryport and Carlisle Railway , to provide transport for the workers and their families from Scar House to Lofthouse, and a two-track carriage shed was built to the east of the main complex. Six locomotives worked in the quarry. Allenby , Beatty , Haig and Trotter were based at

3828-565: The whole line and then only above Lofthouse, while Bradford Corporation, as owners of the Nidd Valley Light Railway, had sixteen of their own standard gauge locomotives. Holme & King Ltd 3 ft ( 914 mm ) John Best & Son 3 ft ( 914 mm ) John Best & Son 4 ft  8 + 1 ⁄ 2  in ( 1,435 mm ) Bradford Corporation 4 ft  8 + 1 ⁄ 2  in ( 1,435 mm ) The railway began in Pateley Bridge, close to

3894-419: Was Holme and King's Xit and the other was Best's Angram . It took about an hour to reach Angram, where there were presentations, and Alderman Holdsworth cut the first sod for the dam. Refreshments were then served and the party returned to Lofthouse by train and to Pateley Bridge by carriage. The 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge line soon reached Pateley Bridge, and Angram became the 'route engine', working

3960-441: Was awarded to John Best & Son in 1903, and he also won the contract to build the public railway and a 6.5-mile (10.5 km) private extension to the reservoir site. This was initially built to 3 ft ( 914 mm ) gauge but was converted to standard gauge by 1907, when the public railway opened. Best had his own locomotives, and Bradford Corporation equipped the public railway with second hand locomotives and carriages from

4026-459: Was built between 1920 and 1921, consisting of ten hostels for a total of 640 men, a school, canteen, recreation room, concert hall, mission church and some bungalows. Plans to electrify the railway using hydro-electric power, were considered in March 1920, but rejected as being uneconomic. Holdsworth , dating from 1866, was thought to be too heavy for the line, but when no buyers could be found, it

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4092-606: Was due to make the journey on 14 September 1907, the NER decided not to allow their stock to pass onto the Nidd Valley Light Railway, nor to allow the Corporation engine and carriages to come to their station, and so the passengers had to walk between the two stations. In order to avoid confusion for parcels traffic, Lofthouse station became Lofthouse-in-Nidderdale on 12 December 1907, and Wath became Wath-in-Nidderdale in February 1908 for similar reasons. The work on Angram reservoir drew to

4158-478: Was gradually removed from 1906. At the Angram Dam site, a village for the workers was built, and the railway terminated in several sidings, which included a locomotive shed. The sidings were at a similar level to the crest of the dam. A branch left the main line and descended to the valley floor, where there was a cement mixing plant and more sidings. This line included a winch-operated incline which descended on

4224-408: Was obtained on 14 August 1890, authorising the construction of four dams, but in the meantime, Binnie had moved on to work for London County Council as their Chief Engineer, and was replaced by James Watson of Dundee . A second Act of Parliament was obtained on 27 June 1892, by which time the four reservoirs were Angram , Haden Carr, High Woodale and Gouthwaite . Gouthwaite Reservoir was designed as

4290-495: Was sold to the North Wales Granite Company at Conwy in 1914. Following discussions with the Board of Trade in 1906, the Corporation and the North Eastern Railway had obtained permission for three passenger trains per week to pass over the goods yard and sidings at Pateley Bridge, so that excursions could continue up to Lofthouse between June and September only. Despite the agreement, when the first excursion

4356-408: Was used as a stationary steam supply for a further 14 years. There were plans to overhaul Milner , to obtain another lighter engine, and to purchase two railmotor cars. From August 1920, work was carried out to improve the line between Lofthouse and Angram. This included easing the alignment on many of the curves, the addition of loops near Lofthouse and at Woodale, just below the Scar House site, and

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